Luis Arraiz - K9 Designer and Suspension Guru
A frank talk with the K9 front man and suspension authority about bike setup, data-logging, suspension, and if there really is one design that trumps all of the others.Luis, you are known for being one of the brighter minds in the industry, as well as running your own K9 brand, but tell us about the early days. How did you end up going from Venezuela to living in Oxford, UK, and running K9?
I had a great childhood in Venezuela, back then we used to play on the streets and empty lots. Whether it was baseball, football (soccer), BMX, it didn't matter, it was a lot of fun. Most weekends we went to the beach or the mountains. My family was always very active, so we were always water skiing, snorkeling, pier diving, swinging, etc... not really the type to just lay on the sand and soak up the sun. My father was a jet fighter pilot in the air force so we traveled a bit and lived in a few different cities around the country.
That must have been very cool to be a young guy and be able to say that your dad flies fighter planes! When did your family make the move to the U.S.?
For my father's last year in the service, he was appointed as a military adviser to the UN in 1990, so we moved to Greenwich, Connecticut, when I was thirteen. What's really funny is that we thought that most towns were like Greenwich! I got an after school job as a paper delivery boy around the neighborhood, so my parents bought me a mountain bike (my first ever MTB) and I hated it, I wanted a BMX because we used to ride BMX back in Venezuela. Now I had to ride this huge and heavy bike with gears and it wasn't much fun at first.
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Alright, so it wasn't love at first ride with mountain bikes. What about cars?
Well, that's funny story. I must have been around nine or ten years old and I was watching an awesome car movie, the original Cannonball, at a neighbor's house. I was fascinated by cars like the Ferrari's, Lamborghini Countach, DeTomaso Pantera, Porsche's, etc... so I began talking to my father as to how I could design and make cars like that and he told me that I would need to be a mechanical engineer in order to do that.
I'm pretty sure that at that age I was catching frogs, building forts, and didn't even know what a mechanical engineer did...
By the time I was ten years old I was pretty sure of what I wanted to do with my life. I wanted to be a car engineer/designer and work for Ferrari, but as it happens many times, sometimes you change your mind. Everything started in the U.S.A.. The plan was to go Maryville University in St Louis to do pre-engineering, then transfer to Wash. U in St Louis for the undergrad in mechanical engineering, and then do a masters in automotive engineering at Michigan State. When I was in STL, I began to read a British magazine called "Racecar Engineering" and I was hooked. I went every month to Borders (an American book store) to read it for a few hours before buying it. One day I saw an add for Oxford Brookes University which had a motorsports' engineering degree. I spoke to my family, then ditched a skiing Spring break trip to Vail to go check out the school. I liked what I saw, and after my return trip I began to do the paperwork to transfer and move to the sunny Oxford, LOL!
So you started off wanting to work on fast production cars, but made the jump to the racing side of things. Why?
My plan from day one was to work in high-end motorsports such as F1, WRC, Paris Dakar rallies, etc... anything with 4 wheels that was technical and interesting. I wanted to work in an area where engineers were as valuable as the drivers themselves.
When and how did mountain bikes start coming back into your life?
I really was not aware of MTB at this time at all, I was mainly into racing cars, football (soccer), and rollerblading was my thing at the time. When I got to Oxford, I noticed that everyone got around using the bus system and bikes. I bought a used MTB for £50.00 and commuted everywhere. One day a friend of mine invited me to go on an off-road bike ride and I loved it, however my bike did not, as it almost fell apart by the time I got home. But it was too late for me, I got hooked on it and wanted to go mountain biking.
I think that a lot of riders get their start that way, going from commuting to mountain biking. But how did the big jump to suspension design come about?
As I was approaching my last year of the undergrad and the final year project, I really wanted to do a bit of DH, but my bike was not up to the task. So I began to do a bit of research about the type of full suspension designs available e.g. VPP, FSR, Lawwill, single pivots, etc... because I wanted to know how they all compared to each other before I spent my savings on my first DH bike. After awhile I thought that there was room for improvement and talked to my advisor at the university about doing my project on bicycle suspension. After graduation I had problems getting a job due to my visa and decided to take my design to market, and here we are.
Mountain bikes and race cars are very different vehicles. How does what you know translate to the world of bicycles?
Yes, they are quite different vehicles with different characteristics, requirements, and constraints. But cars and bikes are both ground vehicles and the same vehicle dynamic principles still apply to both, so they can be analyzed in the same way.
You're saying that, despite our bodies putting out a meager 1hp, the same principles and demands are pertinent?
The demands are very similar, but there is still quite a difference. When it comes to power, it is not just the amount of power, but how it is delivered that makes the biggest difference. On a race car, a driver is on the power everywhere except while in the corner entry and the middle of the corner, and the power is delivered fairly constantly until you shift gears, but on a bike it is a lot more sporadic, and not only that, but riders can only produce a sinusoidal power delivery (wave form) rather than the constant delivery of the car.
Given what you've said above, can a rider benefit from taking the time to do proper bike setup for a course in the same manner that a race car driver would?
Any rider can benefit from a well setup bike. I would like to add that you do not need to be pro lever rider or racer to enjoy the benefit of a good setup; weekend warriors, epic riders, and XC riders (anyone who rides off road) can all benefit from the benefits of a good setup.
Do you think that mountain bikers are prone to sell themselves short when it comes to taking advantage of the technology available?
This is not as straight forward as it should be. I know that there is all of this technology that will help you ride better, safer, and faster, and it would be foolish not to take advantage of it. But with all the marketing and trends, not all products will be the right one for each and every rider or condition out there. So how do you determine what's truly useful from what isn't, without taking into consideration the placebo effect that if you think it will make you go faster, perhaps it will just because you believe in it and therefore increased your confidence?
How large of a part does bike setup play in a World Cup rider's performance? Do any of those guys have questionable setups?
I think that at the top level, 90 percent is the rider and the remaining 10 percent is the bike and equipment. A rider who has the skill, ability, and confidence to compete at the top level can ride anything fast, as they can compensate for whatever the bike is doing with their skill and ability. Now if you apply those same skills and abilities with a well setup bike and equipment, their performance will increase. While not all the top pros have a perfect setup, most of them do seem to have their bikes fairly well setup, or with a setup that they like and feel confident on.
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And what about the average rider, there must surely be benefits for them as well to take the time to get some proper settings nailed down?
I believe that the biggest differences will be seen by amateur and semi-pro riders, more so than professional riders. To the average rider, the bike and equipment play a bigger percentage in their performance because they do not have the same skill, strength, mental ability as top athletes do, and I am fairly certain that their setup is not as dialed either. So can a regular rider benefit from a well setup bike? Definitely. Where a pro may see between one tenth to five tenths, other riders may see entire seconds of benefit.
I could use a few seconds here or there! Moving from setup to actual suspension design; there are many different bike designs out there at this point, with each touting benefits over the others. Do you think that there are one or two that are truly better than the competition?
All rear suspension designs have positive and negative characteristics, sometimes it may not be the actual design itself at fault, but the execution of the design. Let's take as an example two single pivot bikes with rocker links: will a Chumba F5 work and feel the same as a Tomac Primer? I do not think so.
So you are saying that there is no clear winner, that it is too complicated to simply say that one design is better than another?
While the L.A. Link (Luis' own design used on his K9 bikes) is a 4-bar suspension design, I am also a big fan of the single pivot for its simplicity and predictability. However, 4-bars are great because they allow you to manipulate a lot more parameters to achieve what you want. That's why they are used in motorsports, short long arm suspension (SLA is an unequal length, double wishbone design) being the perfect example. But they are more complex and they require a skilled engineer to get the most out of them. Take a look at the FSR, which I think is a very good design. There are so many different bikes using the Specialized design in different configurations, but not all are equal in terms of handling and performance.
That is very refreshing and unexpected to hear, coming from an engineer who has designed, patented, and put into production his own suspension system. Alright, one design may not be vastly superior, but there must surely be some overall traits that are mandatory for a bike to be considered great?
Well, there are several parameters that will dictate how a bike will perform. These include: sizing, suspension travel, suspension rate, dynamic geometry, axle path, pedal induced torque, pedal kickback, weight, etc... While the overall performance of the bike is determined by the complete package and balance of all these parameters, the two most important factors are sizing and dynamic geometry.
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What about overrated qualities? There seems to be a race on to see who can build the lightest production DH bike, but it's not that simple, is it?
Weight is an important attribute, but it is not the defining factor. It is not about how much weight there is, but where it is located and what type of weight it is that will have the biggest impact on the performance and feel of the bike. What is the sprung to un-sprung weight ratio? Is it on the swingarm, wheels, main frame, etc...
You run your own company, K9 Industries, and not only design your own bike and components, but also offer your data acquisition services for hire. Can you explain the system and how a rider is able to benefit from such a service?
The data logging services that we offer is a service which can be tendered to anyone. It is like providing a race car pit service to you on your bike. Basically, we strap a on motorsports-grade data logger (hard-drive) and attach sensors around the bike. Then you get to ride the bike, and after each ride we connect the logger to the computer, analyze the results, and make the required changes according to the data and rider feedback.
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And what sort of results would the rider see from this?
The goal of the data logging depends on the costumer and on his requirements. We mainly try to set up the bike so that both front and rear suspension is balanced and works as an uniform system. Racers may prefer to have the bike setup for ultimate speed, while more leisure and recreational riders may prefer a more comfortable ride.
So we come back to balance, something that is very important in any form of motorsports. What variables are you measuring?
The data is collected through the sensors connected to the data logger unit. We can log a lot different parameters such as: front and rear wheel speed, fork displacement, shock displacement, crank rotation, GPS position, accelerometers, and a few others. From these sensors we can use the software to tell us everything we want to know about the bike.
How hard is it to take into account both empirical testing and rider feedback? Is one more important than the other?
It is extremely important. You cannot just look at the data and make your decisions based solely on the data, it has to be processed and analyzed alongside rider feedback. Sometimes you have some contradiction between the data and the rider, and you have to determine the cause of it. Remember that the data is the result of what is happening, so sometimes you have to figure out why it is happening. Sounds silly, but it is highly important to ask the right question to the rider to get the right feedback. Sometimes you need to recollect the data as well to verify the previous results.
It is common to read about a bike's "balance", or lack thereof, in a review. You touched on it above when talking about telemetry, but why is it so important?
As is the case with any type vehicle, it needs to have a suitable balance in order to provide a comfortable and controlled ride. An unbalance bike will always be more difficult to ride as the rider has to react and second guess what the bike is doing. A well balanced bike is easier and safer to ride because it is very predictable. There are a few reasons why a bike would be out of balance, but most of the time it is to do with wrong spring rates and rebound settings.
Are you saying that there is clearly a right way and wrong way when it comes to suspension setup for a given course or type of terrain?
Yes, suspension setups can vary from rider to rider, even when the same bike and components are used. The difference in setup will be due to the rider's weight distribution, riding style, and preferences, but this can all be accounted for and fine tuned using a standard base setup as a starting point.
I see... start with a good base setup and make small adjustments. You've designed and produced your own bike, the DH001-S, that uses your L.A. Link Suspension System. It is a very unique looking bike, can you tell us a bit about it?
I am glad you asked that question. Yes, the bike is quite unique as it was originally conceived to be a pure race bike. The DH001-S was born out of the L.A Link suspension design. The L.A Link is a suspension design which provides the following characteristics: minimal pedal induced torque and chain length growth, a rearward axle path, a linear progressive leverage rate, and constant anti-squat. The idea behind the design is to provide a ride that is very efficient, stable, and keeps the pedals level while in rough ground, and is active while pedaling. It is a very stable and comfortable bike.
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So it's designed to go fast. The DH001-S uses 15CDV6 steel for the front triangle and aluminum for the rear. Can you shed some light on why you went that route?
The 15CDV6 was a godsend. I was adamant to manufacture the bikes in the UK, but finding 7005 & 6061 aluminum alloys and people who knew how to use them proved to be almost impossible. We got talking to a few fabrication shops around Oxford about making a some prototypes in T45 and they introduced me to 15CDV6. This is a German steel that is extensively used for race car chassis', roll bars, and suspension arms for its strength, stiffness, fatigue and durability. So after careful studying of the material properties, it was clear that is was more than suitable for bike frames. The rear swing arm is aluminum as we are trying to reduce the un-sprung mass of the suspension, while still having sufficient stiffness in the back end.
And what about the idler wheel, what does it accomplish?
The suspension was designed to work in conjunction with the idler; you can say that it is the heart of the L.A. Link suspension. The bike has a very rearward axle path, and the instant center is located very close to the idler and that allows me to greatly reduce the amount of chain length growth and pedal induced torque. It basically separates the suspension movement from the pedal inputs and vice versa.
So the idler helps the bike get around some drawbacks of a very reward axle path. I've read that you've designed in a lot of dynamic stability into your bike. What is this and why is it beneficial?
You can define it as the ability of the chassis/bike to remain stable while under different conditions; such as acceleration, cornering, braking, pedaling, bump absorption, etc.. A bike that has a good dynamic stability will be very predictable.
You're obviously a big fan of adjustability, with the DH001-S allowing riders to pick from three chainstay lengths, five head tube angles, and three levels of pedal feedback.
The bike features several adjustable parameters, such as head angle, chain stay length and pedal feed back. No two riders are the same and neither are the tracks and conditions that people ride and race, so the adjustments allow the rider to tailor the bike and setup to the specific course, requirement, style, etc... In the neutral position the bike has a 63 degree head angle, 16.75" chain-stay length, and 10 mm drop bottom bracket. Also, the 13T idler sprocket provides about 5 degrees of pedal feedback. This setup will work very well for most downhill tracks, but you can also make the bike slacker and longer for higher stability, or shorter and more manoeuvrable if required. Personally, at K9, we prefer the bigger 13T sprocket as it provides the least pedal feedback and more control, but some riders choose either of the 2 smaller ones in order to feel more connected to the drive train.
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The DH001-S touts that its "instant center migration is engineered for constant anti-squat". In simple terms, what are you referring to and why is it important?
The instant center is the same thing as a virtual pivot point, and its location and movement (migration) is as important as the position of the pivot on a single pivot bike. It determines the axle path and the anti-squat of the bike throughout the travel.
There are many designs out there that use a triangulated rear end and two short suspension links to manipulate wheel travel and suspension rate. It seems very easy for ill-informed readers to assume that because one design looks similar to another that it must perform the same (picture all of those "it looks like a..." comments) Thoughts?
There are several reasons why there are many suspension designs using this linkage configuration. The two short links and triangulated swing arm configuration provides a very stiff and structurally sound design. This configuration makes it easy to manipulate how the suspension will work. Yeah, small changes in length, orientation, position, and angle of the links can have a great effect on how they will work and ride, so just because they may look similar, does not mean they will work the same. The devil is in the details!
It's almost like that paragraph should be included with any bike test! Do you feel that the media should make more of an effort to educate readers as to why one design is different from another?
I think that the media has a degree of responsibility to educate the readers and riders, but in the end it is up to the general customer to either discard the new information or not.
That sounds fair to me. According to many readers, your bike will never win a beauty contest. Are you the least bit concerned?
Yeah, we are aware that a lot people do not really like the look of the bike as it looks very different to most mainstream bikes. It really is very much about form follows function as it rides beautifully. It is a concern to us at K-9 and it will be addressed in the future.
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I'm looking forward to seeing what you have cooking. Besides the DH001-S frame set, what else is in the works for K9 in 2011?
Well, we have got a few things coming very, very soon. The philosophy behind the new component range is that they provide some performance gain, an advantage, or a unique solution. For 2011 the range will include:
• Redesigned ARC head tube cups in both 1.5" and Frustum standards
• Three coil spring options (steel, lightweight steel and titanium) with bearings and adapters
• A 115 gram two piece direct mount stem, which we believe will be lightest and stiffest stem on the market
• Adjustable length handle bars
• High performance and race only brake pads
• A very light set of pedals with a very unique internal mechanism which lets you adjust how much it spins
• Fork bearings for the BoXXer, Bos Idylle, and Fox 40
• K9 Industries
O.K., you're going to have to explain the fork bearings to me...
The fork bearings are some very cool little components. They allow the fork springs to move more freely and react a lot faster to the terrain, which in turns provides more grip.
Luis Arraiz will be writing monthly columns for Pinkbike that will explain the physics of mountain biking in an easy to understand and interactive format. How long will it take a hot brake rotor to cook a steak? Does your suspension really move faster than you driving down the highway? Stay tuned!
Did you like what Luis had to say? Excited for his upcoming articles?
I had a great childhood in Venezuela, back then we used to play on the streets and empty lots. Whether it was baseball, football (soccer), BMX, it didn't matter, it was a lot of fun. Most weekends we went to the beach or the mountains. My family was always very active, so we were always water skiing, snorkeling, pier diving, swinging, etc... not really the type to just lay on the sand and soak up the sun. My father was a jet fighter pilot in the air force so we traveled a bit and lived in a few different cities around the country.
That must have been very cool to be a young guy and be able to say that your dad flies fighter planes! When did your family make the move to the U.S.?
For my father's last year in the service, he was appointed as a military adviser to the UN in 1990, so we moved to Greenwich, Connecticut, when I was thirteen. What's really funny is that we thought that most towns were like Greenwich! I got an after school job as a paper delivery boy around the neighborhood, so my parents bought me a mountain bike (my first ever MTB) and I hated it, I wanted a BMX because we used to ride BMX back in Venezuela. Now I had to ride this huge and heavy bike with gears and it wasn't much fun at first.
From Venezuela, to the U.S., to Oxford to pursue a motorsports engineering degree. Luis then started up K9 Industries after designing the L.A. Link suspension system and offers his data-logging services for those who want to take bike setup to the next level. And no, you don't have to own a K9 to take advantage of his services.
Alright, so it wasn't love at first ride with mountain bikes. What about cars?
Well, that's funny story. I must have been around nine or ten years old and I was watching an awesome car movie, the original Cannonball, at a neighbor's house. I was fascinated by cars like the Ferrari's, Lamborghini Countach, DeTomaso Pantera, Porsche's, etc... so I began talking to my father as to how I could design and make cars like that and he told me that I would need to be a mechanical engineer in order to do that.
I'm pretty sure that at that age I was catching frogs, building forts, and didn't even know what a mechanical engineer did...
By the time I was ten years old I was pretty sure of what I wanted to do with my life. I wanted to be a car engineer/designer and work for Ferrari, but as it happens many times, sometimes you change your mind. Everything started in the U.S.A.. The plan was to go Maryville University in St Louis to do pre-engineering, then transfer to Wash. U in St Louis for the undergrad in mechanical engineering, and then do a masters in automotive engineering at Michigan State. When I was in STL, I began to read a British magazine called "Racecar Engineering" and I was hooked. I went every month to Borders (an American book store) to read it for a few hours before buying it. One day I saw an add for Oxford Brookes University which had a motorsports' engineering degree. I spoke to my family, then ditched a skiing Spring break trip to Vail to go check out the school. I liked what I saw, and after my return trip I began to do the paperwork to transfer and move to the sunny Oxford, LOL!
So you started off wanting to work on fast production cars, but made the jump to the racing side of things. Why?
My plan from day one was to work in high-end motorsports such as F1, WRC, Paris Dakar rallies, etc... anything with 4 wheels that was technical and interesting. I wanted to work in an area where engineers were as valuable as the drivers themselves.
When and how did mountain bikes start coming back into your life?
I really was not aware of MTB at this time at all, I was mainly into racing cars, football (soccer), and rollerblading was my thing at the time. When I got to Oxford, I noticed that everyone got around using the bus system and bikes. I bought a used MTB for £50.00 and commuted everywhere. One day a friend of mine invited me to go on an off-road bike ride and I loved it, however my bike did not, as it almost fell apart by the time I got home. But it was too late for me, I got hooked on it and wanted to go mountain biking.
I think that a lot of riders get their start that way, going from commuting to mountain biking. But how did the big jump to suspension design come about?
As I was approaching my last year of the undergrad and the final year project, I really wanted to do a bit of DH, but my bike was not up to the task. So I began to do a bit of research about the type of full suspension designs available e.g. VPP, FSR, Lawwill, single pivots, etc... because I wanted to know how they all compared to each other before I spent my savings on my first DH bike. After awhile I thought that there was room for improvement and talked to my advisor at the university about doing my project on bicycle suspension. After graduation I had problems getting a job due to my visa and decided to take my design to market, and here we are.
Mountain bikes and race cars are very different vehicles. How does what you know translate to the world of bicycles?
Yes, they are quite different vehicles with different characteristics, requirements, and constraints. But cars and bikes are both ground vehicles and the same vehicle dynamic principles still apply to both, so they can be analyzed in the same way.
You're saying that, despite our bodies putting out a meager 1hp, the same principles and demands are pertinent?
The demands are very similar, but there is still quite a difference. When it comes to power, it is not just the amount of power, but how it is delivered that makes the biggest difference. On a race car, a driver is on the power everywhere except while in the corner entry and the middle of the corner, and the power is delivered fairly constantly until you shift gears, but on a bike it is a lot more sporadic, and not only that, but riders can only produce a sinusoidal power delivery (wave form) rather than the constant delivery of the car.
Given what you've said above, can a rider benefit from taking the time to do proper bike setup for a course in the same manner that a race car driver would?
Any rider can benefit from a well setup bike. I would like to add that you do not need to be pro lever rider or racer to enjoy the benefit of a good setup; weekend warriors, epic riders, and XC riders (anyone who rides off road) can all benefit from the benefits of a good setup.
Do you think that mountain bikers are prone to sell themselves short when it comes to taking advantage of the technology available?
This is not as straight forward as it should be. I know that there is all of this technology that will help you ride better, safer, and faster, and it would be foolish not to take advantage of it. But with all the marketing and trends, not all products will be the right one for each and every rider or condition out there. So how do you determine what's truly useful from what isn't, without taking into consideration the placebo effect that if you think it will make you go faster, perhaps it will just because you believe in it and therefore increased your confidence?
How large of a part does bike setup play in a World Cup rider's performance? Do any of those guys have questionable setups?
I think that at the top level, 90 percent is the rider and the remaining 10 percent is the bike and equipment. A rider who has the skill, ability, and confidence to compete at the top level can ride anything fast, as they can compensate for whatever the bike is doing with their skill and ability. Now if you apply those same skills and abilities with a well setup bike and equipment, their performance will increase. While not all the top pros have a perfect setup, most of them do seem to have their bikes fairly well setup, or with a setup that they like and feel confident on.
A K9 DH001-S ready to do some testing with a telemetry unit strapped to it. Running telemetry on a mountain bike has been done before, but it's never been available for the un-sponsered rider to take advantage of.
And what about the average rider, there must surely be benefits for them as well to take the time to get some proper settings nailed down?
I believe that the biggest differences will be seen by amateur and semi-pro riders, more so than professional riders. To the average rider, the bike and equipment play a bigger percentage in their performance because they do not have the same skill, strength, mental ability as top athletes do, and I am fairly certain that their setup is not as dialed either. So can a regular rider benefit from a well setup bike? Definitely. Where a pro may see between one tenth to five tenths, other riders may see entire seconds of benefit.
I could use a few seconds here or there! Moving from setup to actual suspension design; there are many different bike designs out there at this point, with each touting benefits over the others. Do you think that there are one or two that are truly better than the competition?
All rear suspension designs have positive and negative characteristics, sometimes it may not be the actual design itself at fault, but the execution of the design. Let's take as an example two single pivot bikes with rocker links: will a Chumba F5 work and feel the same as a Tomac Primer? I do not think so.
So you are saying that there is no clear winner, that it is too complicated to simply say that one design is better than another?
While the L.A. Link (Luis' own design used on his K9 bikes) is a 4-bar suspension design, I am also a big fan of the single pivot for its simplicity and predictability. However, 4-bars are great because they allow you to manipulate a lot more parameters to achieve what you want. That's why they are used in motorsports, short long arm suspension (SLA is an unequal length, double wishbone design) being the perfect example. But they are more complex and they require a skilled engineer to get the most out of them. Take a look at the FSR, which I think is a very good design. There are so many different bikes using the Specialized design in different configurations, but not all are equal in terms of handling and performance.
That is very refreshing and unexpected to hear, coming from an engineer who has designed, patented, and put into production his own suspension system. Alright, one design may not be vastly superior, but there must surely be some overall traits that are mandatory for a bike to be considered great?
Well, there are several parameters that will dictate how a bike will perform. These include: sizing, suspension travel, suspension rate, dynamic geometry, axle path, pedal induced torque, pedal kickback, weight, etc... While the overall performance of the bike is determined by the complete package and balance of all these parameters, the two most important factors are sizing and dynamic geometry.
I'd say that it's just a touch more complicated than a typical bike computer. Thankfully, it also tells you a whole lot more information that if used wisely, could make you faster and ride with more control. What is going to make a bigger difference to your riding: upgrading from last year's fork to an up to date model, or letting Luis play with the dials on your suspension?
What about overrated qualities? There seems to be a race on to see who can build the lightest production DH bike, but it's not that simple, is it?
Weight is an important attribute, but it is not the defining factor. It is not about how much weight there is, but where it is located and what type of weight it is that will have the biggest impact on the performance and feel of the bike. What is the sprung to un-sprung weight ratio? Is it on the swingarm, wheels, main frame, etc...
You run your own company, K9 Industries, and not only design your own bike and components, but also offer your data acquisition services for hire. Can you explain the system and how a rider is able to benefit from such a service?
The data logging services that we offer is a service which can be tendered to anyone. It is like providing a race car pit service to you on your bike. Basically, we strap a on motorsports-grade data logger (hard-drive) and attach sensors around the bike. Then you get to ride the bike, and after each ride we connect the logger to the computer, analyze the results, and make the required changes according to the data and rider feedback.
An Orange Five fully kitted out with data-loggers. You don't need to have a full blown DH rig to get the most out of running a proper setup.
And what sort of results would the rider see from this?
The goal of the data logging depends on the costumer and on his requirements. We mainly try to set up the bike so that both front and rear suspension is balanced and works as an uniform system. Racers may prefer to have the bike setup for ultimate speed, while more leisure and recreational riders may prefer a more comfortable ride.
So we come back to balance, something that is very important in any form of motorsports. What variables are you measuring?
The data is collected through the sensors connected to the data logger unit. We can log a lot different parameters such as: front and rear wheel speed, fork displacement, shock displacement, crank rotation, GPS position, accelerometers, and a few others. From these sensors we can use the software to tell us everything we want to know about the bike.
How hard is it to take into account both empirical testing and rider feedback? Is one more important than the other?
It is extremely important. You cannot just look at the data and make your decisions based solely on the data, it has to be processed and analyzed alongside rider feedback. Sometimes you have some contradiction between the data and the rider, and you have to determine the cause of it. Remember that the data is the result of what is happening, so sometimes you have to figure out why it is happening. Sounds silly, but it is highly important to ask the right question to the rider to get the right feedback. Sometimes you need to recollect the data as well to verify the previous results.
It is common to read about a bike's "balance", or lack thereof, in a review. You touched on it above when talking about telemetry, but why is it so important?
As is the case with any type vehicle, it needs to have a suitable balance in order to provide a comfortable and controlled ride. An unbalance bike will always be more difficult to ride as the rider has to react and second guess what the bike is doing. A well balanced bike is easier and safer to ride because it is very predictable. There are a few reasons why a bike would be out of balance, but most of the time it is to do with wrong spring rates and rebound settings.
Are you saying that there is clearly a right way and wrong way when it comes to suspension setup for a given course or type of terrain?
Yes, suspension setups can vary from rider to rider, even when the same bike and components are used. The difference in setup will be due to the rider's weight distribution, riding style, and preferences, but this can all be accounted for and fine tuned using a standard base setup as a starting point.
I see... start with a good base setup and make small adjustments. You've designed and produced your own bike, the DH001-S, that uses your L.A. Link Suspension System. It is a very unique looking bike, can you tell us a bit about it?
I am glad you asked that question. Yes, the bike is quite unique as it was originally conceived to be a pure race bike. The DH001-S was born out of the L.A Link suspension design. The L.A Link is a suspension design which provides the following characteristics: minimal pedal induced torque and chain length growth, a rearward axle path, a linear progressive leverage rate, and constant anti-squat. The idea behind the design is to provide a ride that is very efficient, stable, and keeps the pedals level while in rough ground, and is active while pedaling. It is a very stable and comfortable bike.
The K9 DH001-S. Certainly different looking from the swoopy lines and hydro-formed tubes that you'll find on many of the latest downhill weapons, but is that going to be a factor for you? Should it be?
So it's designed to go fast. The DH001-S uses 15CDV6 steel for the front triangle and aluminum for the rear. Can you shed some light on why you went that route?
The 15CDV6 was a godsend. I was adamant to manufacture the bikes in the UK, but finding 7005 & 6061 aluminum alloys and people who knew how to use them proved to be almost impossible. We got talking to a few fabrication shops around Oxford about making a some prototypes in T45 and they introduced me to 15CDV6. This is a German steel that is extensively used for race car chassis', roll bars, and suspension arms for its strength, stiffness, fatigue and durability. So after careful studying of the material properties, it was clear that is was more than suitable for bike frames. The rear swing arm is aluminum as we are trying to reduce the un-sprung mass of the suspension, while still having sufficient stiffness in the back end.
And what about the idler wheel, what does it accomplish?
The suspension was designed to work in conjunction with the idler; you can say that it is the heart of the L.A. Link suspension. The bike has a very rearward axle path, and the instant center is located very close to the idler and that allows me to greatly reduce the amount of chain length growth and pedal induced torque. It basically separates the suspension movement from the pedal inputs and vice versa.
So the idler helps the bike get around some drawbacks of a very reward axle path. I've read that you've designed in a lot of dynamic stability into your bike. What is this and why is it beneficial?
You can define it as the ability of the chassis/bike to remain stable while under different conditions; such as acceleration, cornering, braking, pedaling, bump absorption, etc.. A bike that has a good dynamic stability will be very predictable.
You're obviously a big fan of adjustability, with the DH001-S allowing riders to pick from three chainstay lengths, five head tube angles, and three levels of pedal feedback.
The bike features several adjustable parameters, such as head angle, chain stay length and pedal feed back. No two riders are the same and neither are the tracks and conditions that people ride and race, so the adjustments allow the rider to tailor the bike and setup to the specific course, requirement, style, etc... In the neutral position the bike has a 63 degree head angle, 16.75" chain-stay length, and 10 mm drop bottom bracket. Also, the 13T idler sprocket provides about 5 degrees of pedal feedback. This setup will work very well for most downhill tracks, but you can also make the bike slacker and longer for higher stability, or shorter and more manoeuvrable if required. Personally, at K9, we prefer the bigger 13T sprocket as it provides the least pedal feedback and more control, but some riders choose either of the 2 smaller ones in order to feel more connected to the drive train.
The DH001-S touts that its "instant center migration is engineered for constant anti-squat". In simple terms, what are you referring to and why is it important?
The instant center is the same thing as a virtual pivot point, and its location and movement (migration) is as important as the position of the pivot on a single pivot bike. It determines the axle path and the anti-squat of the bike throughout the travel.
There are many designs out there that use a triangulated rear end and two short suspension links to manipulate wheel travel and suspension rate. It seems very easy for ill-informed readers to assume that because one design looks similar to another that it must perform the same (picture all of those "it looks like a..." comments) Thoughts?
There are several reasons why there are many suspension designs using this linkage configuration. The two short links and triangulated swing arm configuration provides a very stiff and structurally sound design. This configuration makes it easy to manipulate how the suspension will work. Yeah, small changes in length, orientation, position, and angle of the links can have a great effect on how they will work and ride, so just because they may look similar, does not mean they will work the same. The devil is in the details!
It's almost like that paragraph should be included with any bike test! Do you feel that the media should make more of an effort to educate readers as to why one design is different from another?
I think that the media has a degree of responsibility to educate the readers and riders, but in the end it is up to the general customer to either discard the new information or not.
That sounds fair to me. According to many readers, your bike will never win a beauty contest. Are you the least bit concerned?
Yeah, we are aware that a lot people do not really like the look of the bike as it looks very different to most mainstream bikes. It really is very much about form follows function as it rides beautifully. It is a concern to us at K-9 and it will be addressed in the future.
Much like you may have seen on some rear shocks, K9's fork bearings allow the spring to turn freely under compression.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you have cooking. Besides the DH001-S frame set, what else is in the works for K9 in 2011?
Well, we have got a few things coming very, very soon. The philosophy behind the new component range is that they provide some performance gain, an advantage, or a unique solution. For 2011 the range will include:
• Redesigned ARC head tube cups in both 1.5" and Frustum standards
• Three coil spring options (steel, lightweight steel and titanium) with bearings and adapters
• A 115 gram two piece direct mount stem, which we believe will be lightest and stiffest stem on the market
• Adjustable length handle bars
• High performance and race only brake pads
• A very light set of pedals with a very unique internal mechanism which lets you adjust how much it spins
• Fork bearings for the BoXXer, Bos Idylle, and Fox 40
• K9 Industries
O.K., you're going to have to explain the fork bearings to me...
The fork bearings are some very cool little components. They allow the fork springs to move more freely and react a lot faster to the terrain, which in turns provides more grip.
Luis Arraiz will be writing monthly columns for Pinkbike that will explain the physics of mountain biking in an easy to understand and interactive format. How long will it take a hot brake rotor to cook a steak? Does your suspension really move faster than you driving down the highway? Stay tuned!
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then we'll see wheather 4 years of development has been worth it.Nice and simple.
Please don't take this comment the wrong way,i've actually been looking forward to the production of this K-Nine rig,because it really does look like a very capable rig,my one and only concern is,"have they tried too hard on this bike?.Time will certainley tell.PROPS to Luis Arraiz,for all the hard work he's done with Orange bikes,and for the development of this beatiful beast.
Gary.
that's assuming same spec for all bikes?
besides, you should be a lot faster on v10 then demo....
Empire was fastest off the line, Sunday 2nd and V10 slowest off the line.
V10 is slow off the line, currently I am running either a Vivid coil or Air, at 11st8lb I am running 275psi in the air, it is ok, but no Sunday off the line.
I did try a Demo 2 weeks ago and it accelerated very well. No timing to compare with, but it was noticeably fast off the line compared to the V10 (for me that is, not saying it would be the same for everyone).
Demos are nice bikes, but I'm stoked that you wont ever ride one.... more for me..
God... 17 year olds can be soooo annoying. You'll get it in 5 years, hopefully.
By the way, you are here stroking Santa Cruz's "bolloks' sack and it's rearward path. As well you should. It's a tried and tested design with a Brit hero winning on it. The v- 10 is now one of the most poplr DH bikes in the world. How much marketing do think went into that. This k-9 design hasnt proved itself a single second yet, but he takes a pic of some wires and writes the longest bike review to date and you've "swallowed his whole load already". Talk about gullable sheep. You should wait and see how it's race team performs. Then you can start bashing other companies junior.
props to you Bryantaber..
and to bxxr-rider I am in fact Studying engineering of sorts and Have been riding bikes longer than you've been alive.
the point i am making is you wouldn't want for front axle to compression forward because you could never trust it, it wouldn't track well, wouldn't take square hits well, and wouldn't have much grip at all. so why have the rear axle doing that? why not have a rearward axle path that can be trusted not to kick up on square hits, you can trust to keep 100% of grip over roots and to track brilliantly.
but i guess those FACTS are lost on the brainwashed pinkbike masses.
plus sidwaa, i was pointing out that the demo is a very bad execution of Horst. Horst link is a great concept, the demo is a bad use of it.
As for axle paths doesn't matter - Santa Cruz guys are the kings of marketing BS so it's funny people still trust him.
and thank you very much but i haven't been brainwashed at all by the 'facts', the only reason i'm still riding my demo is because it's sick!
perhaps that's the real reason you're so fond of k9 (and i have nothing against the company) is that you know a couple of people on the inside... just guessing.
To me that reads that you know the guys and the company. This to me sounds very much like you've swallowed all "their Media hype" and you've been "brianwashed" by their jargen as well.........
dude, I'd say quite while your so deep down in the gutter. I've seen these bikes too and yes they look nice and yes the guys do like then that ride them. Every one has an opinion as they are entitled to it. By you stating that a bike is shite an another is the greatest, you are merely coaxing an argument that is pointless.
The K-9 doe's look a nice price but at £4,500+ in the UK for the frame+shock alone, I can't see many people taking this offer up. It's massively overpriced and well for that money, you could buy a top end WC standard carbon frame like the new SC v-10. You'd probably have money left over to take it down to a company and get it tuned up like the above thread to the standard you require........................
What's your thoughts?
Oh and I ride an Intense 951. Am I a trend following idiot with no sense of direction or am I just the same as you- Someone who enjoys riding bikes??????
I got a demo 9, I dont think I'm a trend whore... how many people ride 9's now? regardless, toss me a new 2011 demo.... free of charge and call me a trend whore all you like.
Skittish ? the only thing that makes a demo skittish is the skittish ride on it.. ( you )
and you "are a frend of a friend who knows k-9" I think your full of bs.
@bikeaddict - so you've heard... I love how people assume that big brands make great bikes and are sceptic about smaller ones. Read about the FOX + Demo issue. It's supposedly solved but that's a HUGE engineering fail. You can do it on the virtual prototype phase. You don't even need to put any fork on. Not to mention that I see easier ways to make the rear stays stiff than doubling them. Also short CS + slack ha on the 2010 feels great on steeper tracks but when it gets flattish the weight distribution is too far back which means the front wheel is prone to loosing traction more often. Much to improve but people assume it's a great bike because it's specialized...
Not to bash it's ride quality as currently the differances between top bikes are small but if we talk differances there are many things that can be changed in the demo.
Peace
putting aside my hatred of the demo for a minute. what a lot of company's have been doing is marketing their DH bikes as the ultimate race bike, marketing each little detail as the best, from stupid small "weight saving" bearings to majority forward axlepath's, and hydroforming. but this has been happening for so long that soon as they go to change this they undermine them selves and their products soon as they start marketing the opposite to what they had been before. and because they don't want to undermine themselves and loose respect, due to this a certain criteria has developed for a race bike which will not allow the ultimate race frame.
there are however exceptions, yeti being the biggest of all, started with the 303 which is a mostly forward axle path, to the 303rdh which is about 50/50 then finally to the 303 wcdh with a 100% rearward because they know its the best format for a race bike, but because they have not constrained them selves by marketing gimmicks on their first bike they have been free to do as they wish with design (aside from the rail) and have ended up with the 100% rearward axlepath, now that they realise this is best yeti have started marketing it. this is not me being brainwashed by yeti, but looking at WHY certain things are marketed.
hopefully more of you now get where i am coming from.
(as for my sentence structure and the like, im a kinaesthetic learner, and there fore school never really did any thing for me, and left me dyslexic)
(plus my message was to long so pinkbike loggd my I.P for smapping? :-0. )
You could not possibly know so much about the industry unless you were born with it implanted deep in your DNA.
I suggest that you stop arguing which only further enlarge my opinion that you are a bull shiter (and most probably most others opinion as well) then actually go and ride orange 222 witch has in my opinion a horrible feel due to the suspension.
If you reply to this i will not be reading your replay as it would be a wast of my time.
any sort of intelligence of decent questioning of the lines that company's feed us is lost on here.
so carry on being ignorant of why bikes work, why they can be better and how to make them better. instead of doing work your self, send your suspension to mainstream tuners and have them tell you what you want to hear, take you bikes into shops and spend way over the odds because of what they want you to buy.
so carry on not listening to independent information, and listen to bias contradictions.
1. know one cares.
2. I couldn't give a shit about about my supenstion as long as it absorbs bumps im happy/
3. the people at main stream tuners are like you (big headed and know to much about bikes) and i can do it my self.
4. you are not a pro rider an will never be you are a sad little racer fan boy who care to much about lines and technology and generally doing the up most to improve your performance.
5.you are not the only human being with a brain and opinions if your so smart go do something useful like cure cancer.
6. YOU ARE WAY TO SERIOUS ABOUT THE SPORT JUST CHILL THE f*ck OUT.
if Sam Hill asked for a vpp bike would he get it? no
if Steve Peat asked for a sp bike would he get it? no
if Ge Atherton asked for a horst link bike would he get it? no
everyone is constrained by their sponsors, and their sponsors like commencal, santa cruz and spesh are constrained by the marketing 'information' (bulshit) they have provided in previous years.
and that is why i say the sport is stagnant. because every large company within the sport have sold them selves out to a design concept, which in hell of a lot of cases is not the best concept, but have to stick with it no matter what.
that is why new company's, ones without constraint are pushing the sport, but because they don't get enough market share they hardly make tiny move in the right direction.
so Aaron, if you think the sport is developing and progressing then point it out to me, please, show me some thing that is new.
Also - yes. They are used to getting what their sponsor produces. Also companies don't make new interesting stuff for the pro's but for us. If we demand a better handling bike we will get it. If a pro demands it he might get it. He is paid to do a job so he can suggest not really demand. We pay companies for our bikes - we are the ones who decide.
Remember that every purchase you make is not only an aquisition - it's a vote. Buy buying from a certain company you vote for their current business model (which of course does not only include a bike and tech but also customer support, warranty, race team, advertising)
the pros push the yes they may be limmted be sponsers but the dome has changed a hell of alot since hill has been on one.
the new norco has revolved around rider input and so has the nuke proor scalpe.
any what do you exapect? hover bikes ???
Demo changed due to pro imput? Nope they changed it because the old demo was associated with FR. The feedback of the riders was valuable but what has everybody been saying in the last 3 years about demo? Make it Slacker and Lower so yeah, they had to have hill for that. Not to mention that the 2010 to 2011 is not a big change. I love how people are tricked into beliving the bike was reinvented. The geo is VERY close, the susp too. The only differance is that the frame is lighter and it isn't compatable with any part (wheels, forks, shocks).
Nuke Proof - again WRONG. The team rode Intense for the whole 2010 season. There was ONE NP bike with them but it wasnt ridden by any of the main CRC team riders.
Basicly you have no idea what you are talking about - Riders are brought to Advertise new products. Their feedback is valuable but there are companies with much smaller teams (or none) that also make great bikes. For some reason Frank changes FTW bikes geo quite often and he has no WC team. I smell a conspiracy theory.
'modern' geometry is not new. the prototype 222 from late 90's had a 61degree HA. and super low bb.
Horst link (fsr) from early 90's
carbon has been around for donkey years in mtb.
air shocks have been around since 90's.
even drop stop in boxxers is a rubber elastomer from ORIGINAL suspension designs in early 90's
not one product in the dh market is really new technology in at last the last 5 years.
only thing i can think of as new technology in entire mtb sport is dropper posts, and they are couple of years old now.
and that is why i say the sport is stagnant, there has been no real progression in at last 5 years.
anyway we should stop this bitching because its pathetic and i makes us bot look like trolls having a troll of...
...you will probably dis agree but i don't care you can continue with your conspiracy's.
And i am sorry for my trolling.
now go ride.
No BS, no spin, no self-plugging.
Will be interested in some of those products they've mentioned they're working on too.
It is interesting the LA mentions that short links provide stiffness, because those lower links must be the longest of the 'solid rear triangle attached via two links' designs I've seen.
And the first person that says "It looks like a [whatever]" will be either very brave or knowledgeable.
Jamie
K9 Industries
and with the bearing, i just think he is making a product for something that is not a problem or needs to be complicated. surely if it was that good the top suspension company's, the people who have got everything dialed and dominate the scene , fox, rock shocks ...... would use it ? thats the bit i do not understand
This frame could change how linkage is designed from now on.. linkages are getting more and more complicted, maybe a simple design with good engineering is the best way to go?
Then you have to remember vehicles have 4 wheels, 4 wheels simply means more grip, we are working with 2! So again the suspension characteristics are going to be completely different to how a mountain bikes suspension works! To state weight is not a defining factor is a daring statement, its common knowledge the lighter something is; the more efficient it is, where that be changing direction, braking, accelerating and so on! Its not just unsprung weight that's important, its the complete package of a lighter bike with a low COG thats important, this will then allow the suspension to work efficiently, which in turn allows for a faster bike.
I guess there are something he didn't pick up from his motor-sport studies and it sounds like he has never been on a race track in his life! I am ranting because I just don't like this how terminology of motorsport being thrown into mountain biking its almost saying hey this guy has motorsport background it must be good! DH is gravity assisted it needs to define in its own ways which works for it, there are no text books for this, Ok you can take snippets of info from different motorsports, moto-cross etc but ultimately the only way you will learn is from trial and error, unless it gets injected with vast amounts of money for R&D on motorsport levels, i cant see that happening any time soon!
From above:
"No BS, no spin, no self-plugging."
Maybe not as far as self plugging, but the questions that were asked and the weighted way in which they were was pretty biased. After LA stated himself that "All rear suspension designs have positive and negative characteristics", i would have been interested to hear the drawbacks of his own design.
Overall I think the telemetry is an interesting way to approach the sport, and can only add to its credibility. As for the bike itself, I'm yet to be convinced. Judging by print adverts its been out a fair while, and certainly don't see many around. Who knows though, could be a marketing thing...
Bike set-up isn't black and white, it's too variable and as many riders prove, too dependant on an individual riders style to say that one setup is best and therefore what should be used.
Luis is a very smart guy, no doubt about it, and it's awesome to have him on the site. But as with everything, explaining the reasoning isn't necessarily so easy or clear cut, even if the intended result from doing something is very effective and works totally as intended.
Low weight and a low CoG is super important for maneuverability however for bump absorption a high Sprung/Unsprung ratio is more important. Think about a high sprung mass (frame+rider) and a low unsprung mass (wheels/susp). The lower mass of the moving parts creates less momentum and therefore is less likely to upset the sprung part improving stability over rough terrain.
You just have to balance everything. I'm into racecar suspension and I use to say that designing a suspension for any vehicle isn't really an optimization, is more like a task of damage control.
He stated that "Weight is an important attribute, but it is not the defining factor. It is not about how much weight there is, but where it is located and what type of weight it is that will have the biggest impact on the performance and feel of the bike. What is the sprung to un-sprung weight ratio? Is it on the swingarm, wheels, main frame, etc..." So total system weight is important but it's not the end all/be all. He simply stated that low overall weight isn't the single most important factor in a design. Balance and chassis dynamics are more important than total system weight.
With regard to data logging/telemetry don't forget the all conquering Sunn team used it very effectively many years ago. Do I think it will help the average weekend warrior? Probably not.
Have you never seen a motor bike in your life? Go to google and search "dirt bike". Go to you tube and search motocross, and if your really ambitious, you can search supercross! After that, you can tell me again how motor sports and DH don't share similar principals!
Anyway if you read what I said, my gripe is using the terminology of motorsports into MTB. And if you want my credentials, I work in motorsport and have done for some years!
It amazes me others have not jumped onto this and even though these spring bearings have been around awhile for shocks its not standard by now, makes so much sense and improvement!
it would also make no difference to your DU bushings.
www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/technical-stuff/204955d1254926702t-pics-video-red-bull-formula-1-car-assembly-engine-fire-up-mumbai-p1000761.jpg
a point for dhshredder - the frame/bike isnt that expensive as i know you hinted to it above, mark it up against other bikes made and or sold in the UK and in fact its very competitive, then when you throw in the extra support and free logging sessions you get with the purchase of a new bike from K9 it quickly becomes a bargain. And yes it hasn't appreared on the WC circuit podiums yet but bear in mind this is still quite a new and small bike company based in Britain where everything is SUPER EXPENSIVE compared to over the pond,remember too that they are competing against large teams so funding is always something to bear in mind especially when a small business - they are doing well on the national circuit in the UK and i would expect quite soon that the bikes are seen on podiums in the larger races. You cannot understand how hard it must be to make an impact on the big scene when built and based in the UK!
Does it have like 90 deg/g roll gradient that lets me hit berms like Samuel hill?
Luis seems to have created his own hype very well, but I'm not buying it.
The man is OBSESSED with dyno testing - who cares!
Race results are what make a bike fast.
Podiums
When it comes to buying technology it's the whole law of diminishing returns as ever. I'd say that race car teams have a more consistant set of parameters with which to work, and by that I mean driver, car and track. From what I've seen in a limited scope of track racing the drivers are usually significantly more consistent than their bike riding counterparts are. In terms of MTB, or specifically downhill racing, the kit can make a difference but you're unlikely to find that it's that consistent. Hell, I know that I can usually put in consistent race runs but any comparison in times of a similar level would look vastly different if you plotted the position against a map of the track at any one time. I know from experience that on a sub 15 second piece of track I can be very consistent (within 2/10ths) but up that to over a minute and the consistency drops to over a second. For a circuit driver to go one or two seconds faster over a lap requires a huge leap in performance as everything (gear ratios/power/grip/skill) is very close to the limit for a significant portion of time. In downhill you're using human power and that is a far more difficult thing to manage and control so that you're proving consistent run after run - did that two second advantage come because the bike was working better or the rider just clicked with the track, they just nailed that section through practicing it so much, or because they pedalled harder out of that corner?
I'm going to point out here that I'm not an engineer, I've studied it up to a point and look up things I want to understand better but I certainly don't have a degree in it and it isn't my daily business. I am instead a rider who is interested in how the performance of a product can influence a riders pace and have ridden enough bikes on enough trails with enough timing rigged up to know that the biggest differentiator is the rider, not the bike - and if it is the bike then in all likelihood it's the mental aspect of a rider thinking it's inferior rather than it actually being inferior. Go back to the Boxxer Race/Team thing. You get a kid wanting new forks - he goes quicker. It's not that the performance of the fork has done that, but he has more confidence to hit stuff because in his mind it's better. Perhaps that's the same thing but to me it's an area that can be altered without actually changing the bike, changing the riders attitude and confidence levels. If you have a bike that isn't suited or sized for you then of course that will have a negative impact on your riding but get something that comes close to what you feel comfortable with and you'll be fine.
I dont think you will be seeing these bike under a world cup rider soon, the company is too small atm to afford to sponsor one of the top 20 riders to fly around the world racing, but here in the UK they have had some pretty decent success at events.
At the end of the day everyone should be setting there bike up to have similar wheel rates front and rear so front and rear suspension works in harmony, a great suspension set up will allow you to ride harder for longer buy stopping feeling fatigued with arm pump ect, and anything that allows you to rinse the bike for all its worth for 100% of a run will be worth it in time. For example when i rode in the alps this year i was physically wrecked by the bottom of some of the runs like champery, and if i were racing there any bike that prevents me feeling like a passenger holding on rather then being in control will be worth some good seconds on the hill!
The only downside i can see is that with a rearwards axle path, the chainstay length will change more than normal, so i bet this bike feels like its stuck to the floor rather then feeling poppy and jumpy.
Honestly I would really like to see someone in the industry so clever as you guys, using his enigneering genius to do something so we can have bicycles as means of transportation, recreation,having fun, friendly to environment they are used in. Environmentaly friendly production, using greener materials, done more localy, not to exploit labor overseas, to creat jobs localy. Yes is takes being brave for the producer and takes waaay more money from the buyer. But that kind of redistribution of goods seems better than communism. People like that exist like LOVECRAFT.
Mountain bikes are overdeveloped already. We don't need more development, neither growth. In this world THAT would be AN INNOVATION
You are always passionately hating on new stuff dude (with some valid points), but i dont see you making your own brand with your values. Why dont you have a go at creating your own brand and product using these values.
Curious as to what they cost
On top of that, the linkage you speak of isn't exactly under a 1:1 ratio of movement. 8" of travel doesn't mean that pivot is going to move 8"
RM'er : I've been sceptical about the whole K9 thing since the start but enough people seem to love what they're doing and for me to maybe give them another chance. Lets just say, I'm interested to read what he (Louise Arraiz) writes.
I'm also interested to learn what DW (Dave Weagle) has to say about what he writes or If he would ever be drawn to comment. I'm certainly interested to see what he'd have to say on the K9 LW link patent.
DW : Given that the same basic layout, including the idler wheel is shown and discussed in the already granted dw-link patents, I find it hard to believe that the LA design will get anywhere beyond "pending" in the patent office. I'm not too concerned about it either way..
Enough now! haha. just my thoughts but who am i? DH bikes are not rocket science lets be honest.