I'd like to see the response anyone other than a World Class rider (and all around good guy) like Cedric would get from a Mountain Bike Park if they showed up and requested to ride their moto. Baaaaaaahahahha.
"Yes Mr. Whistler Bike Park Manager, I was thinking about ripping my KTM down A-Line and Joyride. I plan to tread lightly thru the berms also."
@poozank, If you are referring to KTM being superior due to its plushness, you should know that most all dirtbike brands run the same 3 brands of suspension. Motorwise, KTM's engines are average compared to other bikes, not good, not bad. But KTM's frames are terrible. they are notorious for snapping, cracking, and bending. So you are paying more money for a sub-par bike. So, I guess you could say, KTM is not superior, but preferred by most because they can afford the best riders, sort of like trek- aaron gwin, except trek is a great brand. If you are considering a dirtbike I would follow this list: 1. Kawasaki - Honda 2. Yamaha 3. KTM - Suzuki * I dont know much about Husqvarna as they are relatively rare to find in the western hemisphere, but from what I understand they are well liked * You can trust this info. from me as I am very passionate about this sport and many of my friends and family work at MX stores.
If you are considering an MX bike, please remember these bikes are easy to ruin trails with. Respect the mountain bikers as well as other MX riders, alot of work was put into those trails. Cheers, Brent
KTMs are famous as "ready to race" meaning that a majority of their lineup is entirely designed for different types of racing (enduro, XC, motocross) they have so many models that you can find one that is close to perfect for your needs right off the showroom. XC/MXC= cross country racing XC-W/EXC= Enduro SX=Motocross. these free ride bikes, as the name says are just for free riding, not racing.
@poozank for example, here in europe, a low capacity bike (125cc) made by ktm costs about 6000€ (that's about 7700$), an "equivalent" bike made by yamaha, per example, with the same capacity costs about 3500€ (about 4500$), on the other hand KTM is the best enduro bike you can buy in the market, expensive, but near indestructible and works better then all the others.
@giantxtc-0 i'm not discrediting your information, and i agree that KTMs are notorious for have a sub-par chassis. But I race my KTM off road at an ameteur level and i have no worries about my frame failing. every brand has its reputations or problems, but that's what separates them from each other. But just as people are with bicycles, people are very loyal to their motorcycle brands, o i'll leave it at that before this turns into a thread on Thumpertalk.com.
@harrisonschreiner I respect you have a loyalty to KTM. Some people just have their brand like you said. I myself will only ride Ski-Doo when it comes to snowmobiles.
sorry, i dont mean to be arrogant, but back in the days i was a motocross professional rider, and ktm is one of the worst bikes u can buy...they are waaay too overrated just because the can afford good riders...dont get me wrong of course they cant be THAT bad, its just that any of the Japanese bikes are in front, ktm is the 5th on the list...maybe even sharing places with Husky and Husaberg...GiantsXTC-0 is a good list...stick to it
@ mtz666....indestructible????!!! im sorry...i see u like the brand, but really, buy one and ride it before u say that...if there is anything that ktm ISNT, thats indestructible! and i say that with experience!
I have a KTM 525 sx. It is a 2003, and the only work the engine has needed is a set of rings. KTM had a reputation for the worst suspension a few years back in MX, but they were top rated for off road. Currently they are top of the line in both arenas. For anything short of SX at the pro level, any one of the bikes produced in the past five years is more bike than most riders will ever need. People read magazine reviews and think there is a huge difference between the bikes. It is really more like 5% from first to last. I have ridden the first place bike from one year back to back with the last place bike and the difference isn't that great. It is easily eclipsed by the differences you will feel from the proper springs and bars for your height and weight on any given bike.
@willie1 i agree completely. the technology for these machines has come so far that its at a point where all the major brands are pretty close with each other. any brand can work for anyone, its all about set up. back in the early 80s, when the bikes were radically different (mono-shock vs dual shock, air cooled vs. liquid cooled, disc brakes vs. drum brakes) the bikes were very different from year to year.
parts for a ktm cost so little more than parts for any other brand.KTM also have put out the most power stock compared to every other brand.I have a 125 sx and that has like 2 more hp than a cr 125 and it's a pretty good bike all around.I do agree on the frames though and I really think ktm needs to get with the times and put their bikes on an aluminum frame.
its so funny because you yanks know nothing about ktm! they are currentally winning/ going to win every world mx title going so they cant be that bad and i avent seen or heard of a ktm snaping since the 90s! and id love to have one of those freeride 350s, i bet there alot of fun to play on
not been funny but im english and i dont like ktm, i know why they are bad, i know semi pro's who have told me how bad they are unless your a factory team rider who gets the best of the best.
at the end of the day its how you ride not what you ride.
I've been reading your posts and u believe that u know a lot about moto's when in fact your knowledge is so weak that people like you should not be giving advice at all! geez, especially a 2 stroke??? 2strokes are way more reliable on a mx bike, proven time and time again! and get some current knowledge on ktm's as well!
no your right i dont know a thing about mx. i mean i have only been racing for 13 years! and yes i ride smoker because i love it, yes im quicker by far on a 450 but there boring to me and i just love kicking peoples arses on a 06 smoker then there on a 2011 450 dont beleve me? http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/7542165/ and i am just saying my knolege on ktm there pretty good in my mind but thats mainly because of there smokers...
(THIS IS MY OPINION AND EXPARIENCE) I've raced both KTM an Honda motor cross bike. The KTM was an 85cc big wheel and the Honda a 150cc big wheel. I preferred the KTM for ease of riding but the Honda for starting easier. My KTM never snapped and neither has any of my dads 20 or so KTM's he's had over the past 25 years (he was on the youth British enduro team about 15-20 ago). The only problems we've had with the KTM's were my 85 because of the fact it was 2 stroke. It been 2 stroke you had to mix the fuel with oil this was tricky because you have to be quite accurate with your amounts as too much you end up with oil'y fuel and you burn too much oil (which was our problem because the spark plugs would become oil'd up and not allow a spark to be created meaning not ignition meaning not fun) or you under oil it and you end it with a crap engine and your engine may cease or damage it's self as a result of under oiling. That problem was the only problem we've had with a KTM bike. And as I've said we've had a few over the years and none have snapped. People these days are obviously ridding bikes harder than they use to. (JUST MY TAKE)
And he reason people buy them is the same reason people go out and spend sh!t loads on a commencal bike because the athertons ride them. The reason people buy KTM bikes is that the best riders ride them like stefan everts and cairoli ride them and they think it will make them faster
Oh and the only reason 2 stroke is good is because it's lighter than a 4 stroke engine because of the reduction in parts. Other than a hedge trimer a 2 stroke engine is useless and the least reliable thing in the world.!!!
ktm's ARE notoriously unreliable, but they are still liked by many
- And JRoe, I have been a small engine mechanic for a long time, mixing 2 stroke fuel to the right level isn't very hard lol - and yes 2 strokes are considered more unreliable but this is mainly due to people only being familiar with 4 stroke engines, I get told by car and diesel mechanics all the time that 2 strokes are easy to work on but time and time again they prove they know very little about how to properly work with and diagnose 2 stroke engines, in fact very few people specialise with 2 strokes, hence the bad rep they have - they also produce more power than a 4 stroke due to there being twice as many ignition cycles for the rpm, and they can easily be designed to be used upside down unlike 4 strokes, hence why they are used in handheld equipment... the 2 stroke principle just doesn't work so well for bigger engines and generally lacks low rpm power compared to 4 strokes - hence why they aren't as popular overall
i wouldant say there unreliable if there maintained peoperally and i have been riding 2strokes all my life and only had one engine blow up on me and that was even properbally my fault and it was old and had done alot of hours, oh and it wasent a ktm but i see what you mean about people not knowing f*ck all about 2stroke engines
ktm's used to be not so good but in the last few years they have become very good. the ktm two strokes are very nice and are very well built, if you maintain them properly they will last you a long time. and personally i think that ktm's are some of the most reliable bikes
I can totally understand what your saying ctd07. And I know perfectly well how 2 stroke engines work and function I'm an agricultural engineering student so I'm not clueless. My 85 was a year old when I got it and the person who I brought it off obviously didn't know what he was doing as I has the problem with the spark plug becoming oiled up just after I brought it. When I had it for a while it stopped happening. I was just simply making the point. KTM's are not unreliable just that mine was. 2 stroke engines on any bit of kit are just generally more liable to failing than a 4 stroke cycle engine. And this is now getting off a KTM is better argument and on to a 2 stroke vs 4 stroke debate. KTMs have become better and more reliable over the past 15 years or so suzuki and Kawasaki went through the same faise in the 80's they had all the best riders and kit but now KTM have taken that role and now have all THe best kit and all the best riders and now go around winning every thing.
suzuki gone down hill??? are u blind there the best 250f in 2012 right with the kfx. obvi u dont know muxh about motocross if u think suzuki is that low
suzuki is acctualy low at the moment...yes the bikes are not bad, but they are going through a hell of a crisis...they are also a bunch of assh*les...look what they always do to AMA riders...they are making a extremly bad reputation by treating theyre riders like they do...no wonder Ryan D. kicked suzuki out and took Decoster with him...and remember decoster had been working for Suzuki his whole life..even HE said suzuki is a "unfair" company..stuck up brand...dont like suzuki anymore because of what they do in USA...yes the bikes are good...but the brand needs to review theyre americans co-workers..
nope..ktm pays less...they really do leave suzuki because they have a very bad relationship with theyre own riders...we dont have to discuss, just listen to what they say...what? do u really think, that after 50years of suzuki, Decoster would leave suzuki to ktm because of money?!! hehe...
Suzuki has lost a lot of funding for racing over the past few years. They have completely lost their amateur contingency program, I believe their US pro GNCC is completely gone now, and they no longer have a formal factory team for supercross. Although their bikes are still competitive, they are relatively unchanged over the last few model years.
2 strokes aren't unreliable its just that they need attention to keep them running. and even if your engine blows up they are extremely simple and very cheap to work on so it doesn't even cost that much to maintain.
There are a lot of misconceptions here going on between KTM and the others. Take this with a grain of salt as I am a KTM loyal fan, I got my first one in 95 back before they were considered anything, and have since had 6 of them over the years. I have always been impressed with the austrian eye for detail on them. My current bike is a custom built 300sx thats been tuned considerably up for more power and has been running for 2 years without a single hiccup. I compete in hillclimbing and run my motor regularly pisswound for extended periods. A big hill will build enough heat to boil my engine ice coolant.
As far as the frames braking, I have never seen one in colorado. Being built and catered towards enduro racing more than motorcross it would not surprise me if you jump an enduro bike high enough you will brake it. I do not believe the chromoly to be inferior in any way to aluminum. KTM states that they use it to allow for impact absorption due to the flexible nature of chromoly. Same principal behind many of the steel hardtails being built by transition and chromag.
From a technical parts standpoint, at least in 2008 when I bought my last bike, KTM had many (aftermarket) parts equipped factory that you would have to purchase separately to upgrade your other manufactures bikes such as a Hydraulic clutch, pro taper bars, and excel rims. They are also one of the only manufacturers still building a 2 stroke bike.
I am also related to a bike and snomobile dealer who carries Yamaha, Kawasaki, and KTM. From a warranty standpoint he sees the yamahas, and Kawis more than the KTM. There is a video floating around where he did a side by side break down of a 2010 KTM 450 and Kawi 450. Some of the things that particularly stood out for me were in the choice of small parts, the rear brake lever on the kawi was an aluminum pedal with a bolt stuffed through a hole, the KTM ran a small bearing. The rear axle of the Kawi was a big bolt with a castle nut on the end fixed with a keeper wire, the KTM had an aluminum forged axle with a dedicated aluminum cap nut. Its the small details that attract me to them.
So all in all if your into motorcross and going around in circles hitting jumps, go with one of the japanese bikes designed to do just that. If your into desert racing, and enduros get the bike thats designed for that. Check out the Dakar which starts in a few days, 9000 km race through argentina into peru. KTM has dominated that scene since they first came in.
This new 350 is a trials enduro hybrid, its motor is tamed down to (i believe) 25 hp compared to their standard enduro 350 with about 45 hp. The new 350 freeride is also shorter, with a seat height of 895mm unloaded compared to the standard enduro at 970mm.
I recommend checking out the Julian Dupont video of the KTM 350 freeride if you liked this.
Here is one of my videos so you guys do know I ride one before the neg props pore in.
I knew when I first saw the bike it was a kind of trials hybrid with it's smaller size and more agile geometry. I'm sure that Julien Dupont could pull of a lot more awesome trial moves with that bike then he did in the video.
One of the reasons KTMs are considered one of the better brands are because they come stock with lots of upgrades. In reality, unless your racing top level racing, all the current bikes are the same, what makes a bike fast is the person hanging onto the bars
he's only 33? i thought he was older, somewhere along peaty's years. he sure does whoop ass though, i want to have a house like his some day, that place is f*cking epic.
Organic is the key to why mountain bikes are a more pure experience. As soon as you turn on the engine you lose that, but you do gain speed. But faster is only faster, it Isn't necessarily more fun, depending upon your preferances. Uh
I love watching moto & supercross, and riding a moto is fun. But I love the maneuverability and feeling of flow on a mountain bike even more. Human power is real power, whereas a moto relies on oil, the Susubstance which has enhanced our lives temporarily but which in the long run will burn up the planet and most of the species which inhabit it. I'm not blaming global warming on motos, I just enjoy the more natural experience of a mountain bike, especially when you pedal the thing to the top of the mountain before you shred the descent.
CG has been around forever and I hope he keeps killing for as long as Peaty has. Has AG inspired everyone to train on motos in the winter?
Can ANYONE still give me a sane reason why a state of the art MX machine can still cost less than a state of the art MTB???? More MTB's are sold around the world nowadays - so it's not supply/demand.
BTW - KTM also makes wicked cool mountain bikes. (different company division)
damn... that's a great question! haha, possibly because of weight? If I had to guess, a MTB frame takes more engineering than a motorcycle frame only because we are SO concerned with weight. There aren't many carbon dirt bike frames out there because it'd be too damn expensive! That's just a guess though...
Ok here it goes. Motor cycles undoubtedly cost more to make because of the engine, more metal, ect. However, all the parts on a motorcycle are usually made by the company/ are generic. For example it would be like a Giant bicycle, with giant bars, seat, post, wheels , everything made by giant.This saves alot of money, compared to lets say buying a fork from fox, wheels from mavic, a deraluire from shimano, and so on. Stock motorcycles are pretty much like a stock shitty bike. Once you start upgrading your dirt bike, it costs mah f*ckin money! But the bike industry, pretty much the entire world is crazy overpriced. hink about a car tire that you can buy for $50, and then we pay $100 or more for a tire 1/8th of the size? We are in a costly sport, but its worth it
The reason is that the target-audiences of dirtbikes and mtb's are different. The gear-queers are definately strong in the mtb-crowd so overpriced bikes get bought and sites like pb tell us how much more better they are than the old stuff and that it's normal to pay 5k for a bicycle.
Fair enough. But maybe mtb's are so pricey so the company is able to pay overhead fees, dealers, employees etc. Because the mtb crowd isn't as large as the moto crowd, so they have to have high prices to cover their butts. Where as there are more moto riders so the companies don't have to jack their prices up to cover those costs. Everything is expensive though. My 2 pennies...
Karpiel073 - MTB's far out number the moto crowd these days by a huge margin. MTB's are elitist - people will pay - so they jack it up. People buy an MX bike for performance - people will pay a lot to have eye candy on their MTB bike that won't enhance performance (or very little at best) - but they think it will, and so they pay.
I guess I was speaking for where I come from. Where people see me riding an mtb and I literally get looks like I have a head growing out of my ass. But I have impressed nearly all the moto guys with what I can do on my bike. So it's worth it.
It's true - more mountain bikes are sold worldwide than moto cross bikes - not even close - There are loads of different companies that make loads of different mountain bikes (look at Trek/Specialized alone) Honda /suzuki.yamaha/kawawsaki/ ktm - a few others - thats it and what do they make - a few bikes each for MX - More people ride mtb than MX - - this is industry data you can look up.
Cool video, there has been a strong link for years with moto and mtb's - it's all two wheels. Ktm owns the market in Alberta and BC as most of the Japanese manufacturers have not produced any thing new on the trail and enduro side for a long time. If you have the means, there 300 is considered the ultimate trail bike by most. And remember before you go knocking motos, a ton of riding areas were developed by them and they were some of the first to fight to keeping riding areas open. It may not be for you, but that does not mean its inherently bad for everyone. Happy New!!
well said I've been riding both for many years and yes nothing is cooler than ripping down your favorite dh trail but being at a gravel pit or something and tearing up a steep loose gravel hill that most people couldn't walk up is pritty awsome each has there pros and no cons
Ktm makes a good bike. There fit and finish are great motors are strong as hell. The don't handle all that well compared to the jap bikes. There strong point is there enduro bikes. But that said the jap bikes are lighter handle better and have more support. Ktm in euro land has a strong following and they have good riders. But the us with all the jap bikes rules the world of moto especially supercross. Ktm has a good 250 program with herling and roczen. But no one does good on there bigger bikes in the 450 class. Dungey will go downhill riding a ktm. Fact is all the major brands make a good bike And all the major brands have there issues and quirks.There like mtb in a way that some bike make you faster and some bikes just don't work right for you so you try something else .you wanna know more about moto go buy one it will make you a better mtb rider and moto guys should ride mtb it goes both ways. It's all two wheels and all fun. And for the critics out there i race pro dh and moto. And yes there have been motos on a line
This KTM is new. Suppose to be like a hybrid between a dualsport and a trials bike. I feel it would be a good bike for mtn bikers cuz its lighter. Ive been riding my brothers KTM 300 exc and I luv it, its like a big dh bike, great cross tranning.
Bet you every trail builder in the world is turning in there sleep. They hate motos on the dh trail. I'm all for moto just not on our dh trails. You won't see me riding on the mx track with my dh bike. Mainly because they are mostly flat....
I agree motos can tear up dh trails, but mountain bikers definitely do their own share of riding moto trails. Take Downieville here in CA, all those trails were originally Moto trails that bikers now swarm as a now claimed MTB "Mecca".
what i really think would be awesome to watch as well ?.... a top pro mountain biker sliding down the mnt ste anne run on a snow disk or a top mountain biker making some easter eggs
Might be interesting if the bikes were electric juiced up via solar. Now that would be interesting. Still, motorized, regardless of the means, are not bikes and are destructive to the environment. Anyone ever been to an OHV area and see what has been done to the land vs. bicycle only or shared use (no OHV) trails look like. Its like the difference between armageddon and a well tended garden.
well the good thing about the electric one is you could ride anywhere and less people would care because its silent. if only people would learn to love the sound of a crisp 2 stroke...
Not a whole lot lighter. I used to ride tight woody stuff that was as steep and rough as that on my WR 250F I used to have. They looked lower like a trials bike. Thats what the advantage in one would be. It would make it easier to balance.
They are actually a bit smaller than most full size 250's. 35 inch (895mm) seat height and about 220 pounds/99.5 kg for a 4 stroke with a headlight and electric start. Not sure if that's actually dry weight though, if it's dry that's not that super but still not bad.
i just thought they looked a bit small in comparison to my kx 250, im only 5 foot 6 so my bike seems really big to me. These just looked a bit smaller like in between a moto trial bike and a normal sized 250 lol thats for the info tho
Don't like it at all!!!! All point is to use own power and not ruin the trail as motorbike does Can't believe that bike people like that... or they never tried to ride after motorbike ruined the trail. Seeing that, it nearly ruined my day.
Calm down bro, some trails are for dirtbikes only, or some are for both 'motorbikes' (dirtbikes) and mountainbikes. I ride both, and try to never ride on bike trails. everything they rode seemed to be MX specific or a shared route, and they weren't damaging the trail at all....
That would be ideal world and well done if you do the same. I know guys that even change the rims, to be able to put mx tires (to have more grip) and go to ride on wild... sometime using the bike trails. That's why I'm so negative.
Have you stopped to think that it may be (and is likely) entirely legal to ride their motos where they were? There was also already a trail there, hardly an "unspolit nature" by any stretch of the imagination. One thing that gets me is when mountain bikers get preachy... we build our own trails, both legal and ilegal, and do our fare share of damage.
Mike, just because something is legal doesn't mean it's a good thing. Though nuro could have been more eloquent, I agree with him that engines that burn fuel, weigh a ton, and damage the trail considerably more than a mountain bike have no place in nature. While motos are fun to ride, a 30-mile epic ceases to be as epic when you don't have to pedal up every foot you descend. I imagine that blasting uphil is fun, but I'd rather spin and be exhausted than breathe in the other guy's exhaust.
Agreed, they certainly can do more damage, but the trail is already there.. most of the real "damage" has already been done. I have to disagree on the moto front, riding one for 30 miles over technical terrain is super tiring, just in a different way. Speaking from admittedly limited experience, even 10 minutes of blasting up a techy trail had me gasping a sore. It's a very different thing than mountain biking, be it XC or DH, but it can be just as physically challenging.
Single track man I ride both, and each in its own way is as exhausting as the other. There is just more upper body on the moto. As far as the trail goes motos dont do that much more damage compared to bicycles. At least if were talking down hill bikes, XC to moto is a little bit different. I spent 5 years as a professional trail contractor, I have helped train the first IMBA trail crews, built in the US, Canada, and Philippines. In my experience the worst destruction comes form ATV's and Horses, we never had to warranty a trail surface from bicycles or motos. Horses are the hardest to build for because they create pock marks in the soil which then collects water instead of shedding it. Once that contained water soaks in it softens a hard packed tread and creates mud, once you have mud the trail falls apart.
I ride a trail on my mtn bike and the other mtn bikers love me, all smiles and cheer, then I go out the next week on the moto and its all rude comments and attitude like im a different person.
With the exception of down hill, due to safety reasons, I refuse to build a trail thats not for multi user groups. Everyone has a right to enjoy nature in their own way.
